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`JackSilver

Matthew B. Harrison, Esq.

A general rant about photography and models

Sun Jul 31, 2005, 3:27 PM
[link] - This is the information on the latest portfolio development day - set for August 13th - at our studios. Information and links to photos of the models in attendance is available here. SPECIAL DISCOUNT FOR DA MEMBERS: $150 - $100 OFF!

Mood: Enthusiastic In a good mood.
Listening to: Too much food - Jason Mraz
Reading: Anything but a legal textbook
Watching: Thirteen

A general rant about being a photographer...

Lately, I find myself in the middle of a great shift. My focus used to be on attracting wanna be models to work with me. However, as of late - I seem to be promoting myself to non models more and more frequently. I think that overall, the shift really is a good thing. But what does it mean for the semi-pro modeling industry? How did I get to this point?

It seems that every day that passes, I see more and more guys with cameras promoting themselves on the internet. Its getting harder and harder to stand out in the crowd when there are hundreds upon hundreds of photographers all trying to grab one model's attention. Sure there are a lot of models who start websites - but I would venture to guess that maybe less than half of those girls ever actually set up a photo shoot.

It's very frustrating. Why promote yourself as a model and take the time to accurately fill out a website profile and make yourself available - if you aren't gonna go through with it? And why am I wasting my time trying to get your attention when there's hundreds of others all yelling and screaming - "pick me... pick me." Because of this - I have turned towards finding fresh faces, and those who have yet to take their first steps in the modeling industry. I would rather help someone who isn't the next americas next top model than fight for any sort of notice of someone who may or may not actually show up.

I like the non models. I think they bring the most to the table. Maybe its because they usually don't have large egos or tons of nit picky restrictions or they have some fresh ideas about fashion or makeup - that may or may not work on film but are at least willing to give it a shot. A big thing that I notice with non models is personality. Unfortunately, it's quite rare that I find a model model - or should I say - girl who models regularly - with any sort of interesting personality. A very rare few, out of the hundreds that I have worked with. Maybe one who can tell a good joke or keep with a conversation in between shooting sessions. Maybe one who actually doesn't talk about how they haven't eaten in three days but instead can offer an opinion about the latest top 40 track that isn't "oh thats so chill."

How can you create a bond with a model - if they can't even keep your attention? You know, as a photographer, I would love to have models I can build a rapport with. The models I work the best with - the ones I bond with - usually have some of the best photos. Perhaps its because I care more about the final image - if I have some sort of investment in making the model look good. I mean, if you can't create that bond or that tension - it makes shooting a difficult process. I have had some really personalities (**sarcasm**) in the studio ... and if I have trouble getting along with them... the photos suffer. I don't think that I am alone in this proposition.

The problem with the way things are happening now is that most of the newbies that I shoot get to be REALLY excited to work with me and get started in the modeling industry. They have some secret life long dream of being a model - or even just being successful at being pretty. They have amateur web cam type images in their portfolio and they have no knowledge of the industry. They think a job that offers $5,000 and a trip to california is a good idea... not realizing that its probably some porn site that involves defacing their face or some bangbus. Once I work with them, train them on the basics of modeling for photographers, give them advice on the industry, and then finally give them the images (that are retouched and tweaked for optimum results), and they post them, they tend to move on to the next big thing (usually a guy with camera who claims they can do a better job that I can) and I never hear back from them. Or, if anything, I get requests for more images and then yelled at when I don't immediately send them.

So they use my photos to promote themselves, and suddenly, when everyone else starts wanting to shoot with them and yelling pick me, pick me... it's THEN all about how much they can make. Which, I understand... money is important. But, I was good enough to ask for a tfcd session when they were nothing but "aspiring" models, and good enough to keep my work in their portfolio, and good enough to give them advice and information regarding the industry, but suddenly when I want to work with them again and explore some new ideas with a model I already have a rapport with, they disappear or are too busy to work with me. Why work for me when they can get paid by a guy with no photo experience and wants too oogle her and order her around?

For a short period of time, I wrote into my model release form a right to reshoot - but as they teach you in law school - its just a piece of paper. You cannot compel someone to do something they don't wanna do - just because they agreed to it in writing (or should I say, signed by the party to be charged).

I can think of two models specifically who either got their start with me and my studio (including my partner Lesley) and are now basically making a living or enough to pay the bills from their modeling. Do I get to shoot with them anymore? One of them will come out and work with me once in a while - but the other is long gone. It's not that my image or reputation is shot - or that I am not fun to work with. It seems that they see me as their first step - and to work with me again would be a move backwards.

One of the model models I have worked with (and that still shoots with me - from the above example) recently asked me - how come it takes so long to get me photos? "This is a TFP. The shoot was 2 weeks ago... I put in my time. Where are my photos?" she asks. I want to tell her... well... if you had thinner thighs, less acne, and maybe didn't put on your makeup so splotchy... I may have been able to turn them around faster. ::sigh:: I don't say any of that. Not only would it be suicide - it would be hurtful and frankly, its probably not true anyway. Everyone has faults - thats why there's photoshop. ;-)

Seriously though, why don't models understand that there are hours of work that needs to be done to the photos to make them look as hot as the model thinks she should look or how I see them?
Continuing in this explanation why I go after non models - model models give me something like this... "well, thanks for the 20 images. Where are the other 400 you shot?"
I want to respond two ways. One is that I am picky. I think I can afford to be picky. Its my art. If I put my name on it. I want it to be the best it can be.

The second thing is that yes - the model and photographer each put in an equal amount of work during a shoot - to make a shoot successful. Sometimes long stretches of hours at a time. Sometimes - an entire weekend. But once the model leaves and the photographer is left with a memory card full of images - their work is just beginning. There is transferring, backing up, sorting, editing, retouching, and processing that needs to be done to the image to make them sparkle. Unless a model is a photographer themselves, its easy to not realize how time consuming this process is.
Personally, I try to keep my edit time to under 5 minutes per image. But, occasionally, an image will strike me as amazing and I will spend considerably longer. An hour. Two hours. Sometimes more. Maybe I will look up how to do a particular thing in a book or online before I work on the image. Its a very time consuming process. The photos right out of the camera do not look as good as the photos that are coming off the cd I give to the models.

But then someone says, "but aren't the photos a model needs and a photographer wants opposites? It seems that the most artistic (photographically) may not be the best image to use to promote the model."

My response is perhaps. Ultimately, I think that most models have horrible taste when it comes to image selection. Back in the day, I used to let the models see all the roughs (by uploading thumbnails to a secure website) and then letting them pick the ones to be edited. It was a horrible system. Models either didn't respond (and I didn't edit them) - and then months later would write me demanding images - or if they did actually make selections - they picked horrible images: including blurry ones or ones with horrible lighting. Ones that I was not proud to show. I learned after that - never let the models see the roughs. Since I incorporated that rule - no one has complained. But everyone seems to ask.

Why is that? Its because some photographers are giving their roughs to a model.
And why would ANYONE do that? Perhaps they could only get the model there if they did that...
But why would a model want roughs? The model would rather have roughs than have nothing.
I guess there is a big trend in TFP/TFCD shooting of not giving the models photos. Ironically, if these guys were good self promoters - they would be posting some if not all of their images on websites to show off their work. The models could then just take them off the site. No problems. No postage. No lost emails. Unfortunately, it seems that photos get "lost in the mail" more often than a photographer would want to admit.

Occasionally, I get a model who decides to take it upon herself and airbrush/retouch/edit the final image that I give them. My favorite is when they turn my lush color image into a low contrast/no tonality sepia tone. Yeah... that really captures my intent as an artist. Wahoo. Or... one model... she took my image and basically drew on it in paint and totally distorted it turning it into something pretty hideous. Not only is a model in violation of copyright laws by making unauthorized derivative works - but its tasteless. It would be like me pasting someone elses boobs onto an image. You just don't do it. Its not in line with the underlying artistic vision or good taste. Yet models think its cool and do it anyway - even after I ask them not to.

Ultimately - this pressure and distrust has only furthered my retreat towards non models. So between the distrust of not getting images - and the constant pleas for payment for their services - I don't even bother anymore with a lot of these professional or wanna be professional glamour girls.
Of course, I take it one step further... perhaps a bit too far. I make it very clear from the beginnning - both on my website and in my initial correspondence that unless the model has a unique idea or outfit or theme - they either need to pay me for my time (if they wanna break into modeling) or do my projects (most of which involve some form of tasteful nudity) and I will do an equal amount of time doing what they want to do - no matter how boring or uninspired it may be. Some people baulk at that and they leave or just don't respond. Others embrace my projects and let me have creative control and are usually thrilled with the results.

I think I can get away with this because... luckily... photography is not my living - and therefore I can afford to be picky - just as I am with the images themselves. But that doesn't stop the accusations that I am a cocky arrogant bastard. I was gonna charge this girl who had inquired about my doing photos for her - to do very simple - and quite boring - background / glam images that I had no interest in. I didn't think she was that attractive for glam - and she had no experience - and was very picky about what she wanted. Perfect candidate to hire me. I also suggested that she could do some she do tasteful nudity and that I would spend an equal time shooting what she wanted.

I don't think it was so bad an offer. Why should I have to do what I don't wanna do? I am not trying to pay the bills with my photography - nor am I trying to make a household name for myself. Though, let it be said - both would be quite nice. I am just trying to make some pretty pictures and have some fun shooting and also make the models feel good about themselves.

I understand that there are tons of photographers who will do work for free. I understand that I am probably cutting off a chunk of people that I could be working with by having such strict rules... but you know what? I don't really care. I like to be picky. I like doing what I am doing. And if you went up to Helmet Newton or Richard Kern and said... could you take some shots of me on this plain background wearing this very conservative and non properly fitting outfit so my boyfriend who is waiting right over there with a look of anger and jealousy will approve of my modeling and I will be able to charge thousands of dollars an hour the next time you wanna work with me - I am sure they would laugh their asses of.

Just because I am not a household name like them - why is it weird that I too would not want to participate in such a situation?

Yeah, but isn't TFP an exchange and a collaborative effort? Isn't it so both the model and the photographer can walk away with something they need at no cost to either?

To that, I have to say no. I have spent $1,700 on my camera. At least $6-8,000 on lenses and accessories including memory cards, flashes, reflectors, etc. I have spent over $2,300 on lighting equipment. Studio rental is not free. Nor is a computer, the software, and storage media (cds, dvds, hard drives, etc).

What financial expenditures does a model bring to the table? Clothes? Makeup? Maybe some primping fees? Does that equal anywhere near what I bring to the table in regards to expenditures? Heck... even if I was shooting with disposable cameras from a bulk warehouse store... I think the expenses would be more - pro-rata.

Once, I asked a tfp model if she was interested in hiring an MUA. She laughed in my face. I don't test with photographers who don't provide MUAs. I responded, I don't test with models like you.
So with that on the table - I don't think its an even trade. I feel that the photographer brings a large investment of time and money to the table and they really do have control over the shoot if I am doing it for free. This is not to say that others should have control... or to say that I even really deserve control. I just feel justified in taking control based upon what I bring to the table.

I tell the models - I will basically ask you to do whatever it is I want: stand on your head and spit wooden nickles... pose with what they would consider to be a funny face...whatever... and I tell them that just as I have a right to ask - they have the right to say no - to whatever they want. There's the even trade.


From a model's story posted on a messageboard:

He believed he was gonna lure me in with the offer of $100. "Who else has offered to pay you". What's THAT supposed to mean? I don't say yes to everything. A great TFP shoot means WAY more to me than a digital camera, low resolution, bad location, take off your panties, 100 dollar paid shoot.
Thats the thing about paid shoots - and I try to tell this to potential models. Sure, there are plenty of guys who will pay you - but do you really wanna go through the trouble to do a crappy shoot - most likely get naked - and then get crappy photos for a few bucks? I don't think so.


There's this one guy in a city near me - I will not say his name because I don't wanna defend in a suit for defamation - except I do have an affirmative defense - truth. Anyway... this guy is not a good photographer. He has a basic understanding of lights. He has a used set that looks like it has seen better days. He shoots in film with an old camera from the 70's. And he rents out his buddies warehouse at night sometimes to shoot in. He pays anywhere from 300-400 bucks a model for like 3 hours of mostly nude work. He then proceeds to try and sleep with the models and basically is a slime ball. Is it worth the money to get naked and abused?

I seemed to have lost track of my theme: why I work with non models (not how many scummy guys are there)...

I like working with non models because their expectations are realistic. They tend not to be drawn into the dream of being a professional model. They tend to be very pragmatic about themselves, their chances at success, and their own limitations. If you get a model model into the studio - all that tends to go out the window. I am going to leave with this story.

One of the girls I recruited from online had a dream of being a model. A VERY attractive woman... a little too short to do fashion or runway... but who I could totally see in maxim or fhm... came to me asking for advice and to start her out. I needed photos for a bikini contest - and she was comfortable in swimwear... and so the shoot went off. She came prepared to the shoot with 4 or 5 outfits. Each with hand selected accessories and special makeup combinations for each. It was obvious that she had really put some time and effort into preparing for this shoot. We shot. The photos were amazing. She was thrilled and ready to go off and promote herself and get some paying work yada yada yada.
She asked me a few days later about what I thought about her getting signed by an agency. I told her that she should develop more of a portfolio before she approached an agency in boston or new york. She then told me that an agency had approached her and that she had signed paperwork with them. My heart sank. What scam did she get involved with. She then told me that she ALREADY had a paying job to model lingerie with another girl for a website catalogue. Again... my heart sank. It didn't seem right.

She went to the shoot - as the agency had booked. It turns out the agency was a front for this one guy who was trying to start a non nude website of all these girls. He paid them. But he had no idea what he was doing - and the photos were tacky, to say the least. I don't know anyone who would pay to see them. Not that the girls were not cute - because the four girls he signed were very attractive. But his photos, for lack of a better term, sucked.

So what is the point of the story?

The model had gotten what she wanted. Money. Non nude work. Signed by an agency. And it happened within two weeks of her starting modeling. Amazing. Except - now she was signed to a company that made her look and feel crappy AND she's stuck with having these horrible and frankly embarrasing photos of her on a pay site on the net. ::sigh::

Had she listened to me...or heck... even asked me about it in advance - I would have helped her not get into that mess. But they don't listen. I am just a stepping stone for them - to be "famous"...

And so it goes.

Another rant and rave by J.Silver

Devious Comments

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I am glad I had a fresh cup of coffee when I started reading this...cause it is cold now *I read slow*. lol

I worked with one "model" my entire life, and I would rather have a coffee enema any day than work with a *professional model* again.

I took lots of shots with my camera, some with b&w film, but most in color...he bithced and moaned the entire time that he hated the set, didn't like the lights, which I had done by a local theatre lighting designer, and I had agreed when I asked him if he would do it, to help on his next crew *which ended up being 4 hours a day for a week and a half* as payment.

I got so frustrated when I was working that I had left my glasses in the car and when I said that I needed to go to the car and get something the model threw a big fit. So, I took what I knew would be bad, semi-out-of-focus pictures, without my glasses.

I said that we should go outside and let the sun work some great shadows through the trees (which was imprompto because I just needed to get somewhere were I thought I could see better)...this was even worse, another fit insued when I would not take him from what he called *his best side* which was asymetrical to the other side of his face when I tried shooting that side. *nightmare continues but it's about the same, worse it places*

Non-models on the other hand, either like being photographed, both male and female, or want to have an experience to look back on. Most of my photography with people, I only have in my portfolio because they have asked not to be posted on the internet, mostly because they are shy about themselves and might have been worried that I was making them look bad, which I never did...and after seeing the photos never thought they looked bad.

I like working with non-models because they have a sense of humor about themselves and don't mind being silly *ie the shot I have I a naked friend posing like Mighty Mouse*

Over and over again, I stay away from real models, and two have asked me in the last year to photograph them...I can tell them I am busy with my new son...but that excuse will only last so long I guess.

I am basically saying that I understand and I agree.

--
jennysaves

When someone puts their best foot forward, do not stomp on it.
I'm not a photographer, but I do graphics work, and have handled a few online portfolios for some models... I got 5 CDs from one woman, and chose/repaired about 40 - 60 images from all 5 CDs as being good enough and being something that would get her more work and a better image. I have, on occasion, showed models the before and after images...it has never failed to amaze them how much of a difference there can be when someone takes the time to work on the image. After I show them what goes into it, they rarely complain too much about having to wait anymore.

--
Just say NO to watermarks!
Read this [link] He says no to watermarks. [link]
You live in MA? Awesome! I'm in Boston going to mass art.

I hope your bar exam goes well!

And I just wanted to let you know that one of your photos inspired me to draw, even if it was just to practice skin-tones. I'll probably use some of your other photos as referance images.

[link]

--
*sketchbook gallery* [link] *fashion/illustrations/photos* [link]

Wanna color? Go here! [link]

I like my coffee black! Just like my metal.
-MSI
I do love your rants, always thought provoking reads.

--
Ben

Proud member of ~eire and *justportraits
Reading your rants, I always feel like the student approaching the teacher. There's so much I find out just reading them...

Thanks for sharing!
I'm glad I read all of that.

--
Gllry|=turkiye|dU|1clck|1clr
Why are you glad? What about it stood out?

--
Gallery | Website | Photos and the Law
man...that was a rant. Hey...at least you get too shoot models...I've been cut off by my wife....

I've worked with two wonderful semi-pro models who were awesome to work with. No attitude, great personality etc... :saraphim: :sillypersis:

I think there are an awful lot of wanabee models who have low self asteem and will "do what it takes" to "break into" the modeling field.

Unfortunately for me, I got stopped before I really got started :(

--
Your atoms have been around forever...use them wisely.
Good point. I have a few "shocker" before and afters that I keep around - just for that. Though - if you show them a before and after of themselves - it usually gets ugly.

One example I can think of... I went through and actually airbrushed and edited a photo of someone in front of them. And they were so depressed about the "flaws" that it was a horrible idea. To me... I was like... yay! Look how great you look... it backfired.

--
Gallery | Website | Photos and the Law

Quick poll: You're in a cabin and it is freezing cold. If you don't start a fire soon, you will surely die. You only have two flammable items for kindling. Which do you use to get the fire going?

54%
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2%
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~cmulcahy:iconcmulcahy:
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ADVENTURE ADVENTURE ADVENTURE!
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HAve a good vaca and a SWELL birthday on Tuesday :)
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haha moms face eh? great
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i love your photos dammit!
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bacon strip!
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